Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

LAMBSFURY wrote

What exactly are the "new unsealings" that all the Camping friends slaim?

I suppose you would do better by asking an actual "Campignite".

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

If you believe in the May 21 doctrine, that makes you a Camping friend.....

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

LAMBSFURY wrote

If you believe in the May 21 doctrine, that makes you a Camping friend.....

Another witch who thinks that she can see inside my head...

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

Progressive revelation = Witchcraft

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

LAMBSFURY wrote

Progressive revelation = Witchcraft

I can understand your desire to place limits on nutty interpretations of scripture, but I think that your position is running so far along the edge that it is bringing you at risk of becoming heretical.

Consider the following few verses which contain the terms "spirit" and "knowledge" or "understanding":

inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding

man of understanding is of an excellent spirit

may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

eyes of your understanding being enlightened

It seems like, in your extreme view, there is no room for the Holy Spirit to work. For you it seems that there is just the Bible and no need for His enlightening. But this is not correct because the gift of understanding is given to some moderately and to others liberally; at some times modestly and at other times gratuitously. It seems, however, that you would have us place an arbitrary restriction on that work and the measure by which He bestows that gift.

This has nothing to do with new revelation or adding to scripture. You wish to set a fence around the content of the scripture, so you set yourself an impossible task.

Rom 11:33 [b]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen[/b]

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

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LAMBSFURY wrote

If you believe in the May 21 doctrine, that makes you a Camping friend.....

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Didymus: Another witch who thinks that she can see inside my head...

Didymus,

Who is the other witch in this thread besides Lambsfury?

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

Fixedheart: This is not a thread specific comment. It is annoying to me anytime anybody invokes the pigeon hole >> dismiss technique of argument.

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

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Didymus: This is not a thread specific comment. It is annoying to me anytime anybody invokes the pigeon hole >> dismiss technique of argument.

I know how you feel. It's annoying to me anytime anybody invokes the witch argument.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

didymus wrote

LAMBSFURY wrote

Correct... The details about the end in Daniel 12:4, Daniel 12:4 are pointing to the New Testament when the seals would be opened, and information about the last days revealed.

I'm going to have to agree since there is a distinction in Dan 12:1 from those in 11:35, 11:40, 12:4, and 12:2 which reference "time of the end" and not "time of distress". See below where the second reference to the time of the end refers back to the first reference which is the time of distress. Other verses only refer to the time of the end.

The question now remains: are all other references (ie, besides 12:1) to the time of the end in Daniel 11 & 12 referencing the entire new testament period, or is there a plausible reason for believing them to refer to the end of that period?

I'm reading the "No Man Knows" tract and it is stated there regarding Daniel 12:4 & 9 that the "time of the end" refers to the last part of the new testament era. I still don't see how this can be proven.

In NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR? HC wrote

In the book of Daniel God has much to say about end-time events. Much of this was understood by Daniel, and because it was such awful information, great agony came upon Daniel. We read for example in Daniel 8:27:

And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king’s business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

But then God told Daniel in Daniel 12:4 and 9:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. And He said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

In other words, God is telling us that there is important information concerning the time of the end that has been recorded in the Bible (“the book”) but is not to be revealed by God until the world is near its end.

Again, how do we know that "time of the end" is not simply referring to the entire new testament era? In which case even the events of the first century would qualify for fulfillment of this prophecy.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

I'm still waiting for a credible response to my last post on this thread.

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

The problem with Didymus is he thinks he can rely on his intellect to understand the Bible.

And his choice of Didymus as his handle says much. Does he think that Jesus commended Thomas for doubting? So this Didymus is trying to follow the footsteps of Thomas.

John 20
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

didymus wrote

oneeternalgospel wrote

Dan 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the Book, even TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED."

The time of the end is when Christ offered himself a sacrifice to pay for our sins

Any calendar advocate who cannot answer this question is not, in my opinion, to be given the time of day.

Here is the problem. In Danial 12:1 we find language that could be referencing the Great Tribulation.

Dan 12:1 KJV - And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

But the one other place where we find activity of Michael is in Revelation:

Rev 12:7 KJV - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 KJV - And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 KJV - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Here is unquestionably a reference to the time of the cross. Do you see the problem, Witness? Why can't Danial 12:1 refer to the time of the cross?

Witness, what is your response?

As for verses 2-4:

Dan 12:2 KJV - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 KJV - And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4 KJV - But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

These events are also to transpire during the latter days. So why can't the events spoken of in Danial 12:1-4 all refer to events to transpire during the entire New Testament era?

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

Notice...

All the language of future progressive revelations is only in the Old Testament, such as the Book of Daniel

You don't see language of Daniel 12:9 again repeated in the New Testament...

If verses like Daniel 12:9 were again repeated in the final chapter of Revelation, one can make an argument of progressive revelation after the Bible was completed.

Just the opposite......it ends with all being "unsealed" - Rev 22:10

And all those who received progressive revelation was NAMED..

"And I JOHN saw these things..." Rev 22:8

There is no progressive revelation after the Bible was completed to people "unnamed" in the Bible...

The camping-ite progressive revelation gospel is false..

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

WitnessoftheTruth wrote

@Didy,

Dan 12:1 is speaking about the Grt Trb. Rev 12:9 is the time of the Cross. What problem?

Witness, Dan 12:1 speaks of Michael. The one other place where we find activity of Michael is in Revelation where he is active at the time of the cross (Rev 12:9 as shown earlier). The first "problem" is that Daniel 12:1 is more likely the time of the cross than it is the great tribulation. If so the "time of the end" starts with the cross and therefore all "unsealings" were completed when the Bible was completed in the first century or thereabouts. This would make more sense because in Revelation 22:10 we learn that all had been unsealed. You want to say that the seals were taken off about 20 years ago, but that flatly contradicts the testimony of John. And that is your second "problem".

So, how do you propose to "fix" these two problems?

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

didymus wrote

WitnessoftheTruth wrote

@Didy,

Dan 12:1 is speaking about the Grt Trb. Rev 12:9 is the time of the Cross. What problem?

Witness, Dan 12:1 speaks of Michael. The one other place where we find activity of Michael is in Revelation where he is active at the time of the cross (Rev 12:9 as shown earlier). The first "problem" is that Daniel 12:1 is more likely the time of the cross than it is the great tribulation. If so the "time of the end" starts with the cross and therefore all "unsealings" were completed when the Bible was completed in the first century or thereabouts. This would make more sense because in Revelation 22:10 we learn that all had been unsealed. You want to say that the seals were taken off about 20 years ago, but that flatly contradicts the testimony of John. And that is your second "problem".

So, how do you propose to "fix" these two problems?

Hello? Witness? How do you respond?