Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

oneeternalgospel wrote

Dan 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the Book, even TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED."

The time of the end is when Christ offered himself a sacrifice to pay for our sins

Any calendar advocate who cannot answer this question is not, in my opinion, to be given the time of day.

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 367

didymus wrote

WitnessoftheTruth wrote

@One,

Yes, cling to the props as the ship sinks to the bottom of the sea. Anything you can think of to deny the Bible being unsealed on May 21, 1988. Sorry, the Church Age has been over for 22 years now. The second outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:11) was on Sept 07, 1994.

Your speech declares you are failing the test, and will enter Judgment Day, now 300 days away. It's pointless to continue with you, and the rest of those worshipping the church corpse.
...

one: I guess he doesn't have an answer...

apparently correct didymus - Hebrews 9:26/Romans 5:6 has shut his mouth so he only offers platitudes - the prophets spoke of "these days" Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Surely thus Daniel spoke of these days of the pouring out the Spirit to all the nations, and the going forth of his messengers into all the earth preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ , the opening up of the previously veiled prophesies of Christ and Him crucified in the OT prophets, etc. if one is given the grace to seek to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified , the scriptures open up as a treasure of explication of that one sacrifice, burial and resurrection on the third day and the age which would follow.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Didy,
The time of the end is when Christ returns

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 367

f3nd3r wrote

@ Didy,
The time of the end is when Christ returns

Are you sure f3nd3r ?

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Christ put away sin at the time of the end of the world

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

A wonder bed-time story!! And then they lived happily ever after!!! There is NO WOLF!! We can make pretend we live in the year 0045, and just ingnore Judgment Day!! Live is sweet when you can write your own ending:

"Surely thus Daniel spoke of these days of the pouring out the Spirit to all the nations, and the going forth of his messengers into all the earth preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ , the opening up of the previously veiled prophesies of Christ and Him crucified in the OT prophets, etc. if one is given the grace to seek to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified , the scriptures open up as a treasure of explication of that one sacrifice, burial and resurrection on the third day and the age which would follow."

Sure, we just keep look back. No need to ever look forward. Judgment Day, now 299 days away, will be loaded with dreamers. Better study up on the Nochain Flood, and Sodom & Gomorrah. Especially the part about the fate of those wanting to 'live happily ever after'.

It's pointless to speak doctrine to a corpse. It's much more fun to point out how ridiculous the church corpses are. There is NO WOLF!! Priceless, 299 from the worst destruction this world has ever seen. This world will be an open grave yard in 42 weeks.

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Posts: 367

There is a wolf WT and His vengeance against those who preach another gospel than that of the apostles is ETERNAL CONSCIOUS WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH AND NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT - we know the "wolf" is coming , He could come at any time , we are always looking for Him and we fear before Him because we know that suicide will not provide a means to escape His judgment for there is no annihilation and no end of the Lake of Fire - we fear the God of scripture whose wrath against sin He demonstrated on Christ who spent FOR EVER TORMENTED CONSCIOUSLY IN HELL read again Jonah 2:2-6 = which judgment against sin and so which sufferings of Christ you mock bitterly and claim you cannot have such a God as your God - but the preaching of the gospel of the eternal conscious suffering in hell of Christ for our sins, His burial and resurrection on the third day and His appearing unto Cephas etc. is a sweet savor unto God even when its fruit is death unto death. 2 Corinthians 2:15,16. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: to the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1365

didymus wrote

oneeternalgospel wrote

Dan 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the Book, even TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED."

The time of the end is when Christ offered himself a sacrifice to pay for our sins

Any calendar advocate who cannot answer this question is not, in my opinion, to be given the time of day.

Here is the problem. In Danial 12:1 we find language that could be referencing the Great Tribulation.

Dan 12:1 KJV - And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

But the one other place where we find activity of Michael is in Revelation:

Rev 12:7 KJV - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 KJV - And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 KJV - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Here is unquestionably a reference to the time of the cross. Do you see the problem, Witness? What is your response?

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@one,

Only 1-2% of the human race was CHOSEN unto Glory.
98-99% of the human race was CHOSEN unto destruction/annihilation.

The Lord's Judgment process is NOT to torture billions of people, for billions of years, JUST BECAUSE the Lord did NOT choose them! I don't understand why folks with a 1 in 100 shot at Salvation, are so interested in eternal torture, which is the most likely place they themselves end up. You have the corrupt church mind-set that you are saved (when really, you are NOT), so therefore, everyone else must be punished. Total nonsense!!

The Bible doesn't support torture. The Lord has NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked, but then He's going to torture them forever?

@Didy,

Dan 12:1 is speaking about the Grt Trb. Rev 12:9 is the time of the Cross. What problem?

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,

Christ died for all man and all who believe are God's elect.

II Thess. 2:13:
"But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." 2 Thess. (TNIV).

John 1:12-13:
"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God." (TNIV).

Acts 13:48:
"When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed." (TNIV)

I Peter 2:7-8:
"Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, 'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,' and, 'A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.' They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for." (TNIV).

We were saved by the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and also through our belief in Christ. Those who believe are God's elect.
God does not desire for anyone to perish, but God desires for ALL of man to be saved. All who believe in him and his sacrifice are elect.

Ezekiel 33:11:
"Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, house of Israel?'" (TNIV)

I Timothy 2:3-4:
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (TNIV)

II Peter 3:9:
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (TNIV)

God desires for everyone to be saved, not just some. Those who believe are saved and become God's elect.

Acts 16:30-34:
"He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household." (TNIV)

John 3:16-18:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (TNIV)

God knew before he created us who would believe and who would not believe. We have the choice to chose for ourselves, but God knows who is going to chose, and those who he knew were going to chose to believe and follow him, are made elect in him.

Romans 8:29:
"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." (TNIV)

I Peter 1:1-2:
"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance." (TNIV).

God foreknew who would chose him and he elected those who he knew would chose him. Election and free will work together, you cannot have all of one and none of the other without putting limitations on God and what he is capable of.

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 652

f3nd3r wrote

God foreknew who would chose him and he elected those who he knew would chose him.

Fendaar, christian brother, something to consider without getting into a full-fledged discussion on predestination:

Did not God 'foreknow' the unfaithful who would never believe as well. Is not God onmiscient? Unless of course foreknow does not simply mean to see into the future. The term is used only in reference to beleivers.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Peterx,
I said, God knew would would chose to believe and who would not, we have the choice to chose to believe. I never said God did not know would would not accept him. God desires for all people to be saved, and that is why he sent his son to die for ALL man

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 652

f3nd3r wrote

@ Peterx,
I said, God knew would would chose to believe and who would not, we have the choice to chose to believe. I never said God did not know would would not accept him. God desires for all people to be saved, and that is why he sent his son to die for ALL man

Could you provide a scripture reference where it says God foreknew the non-elect or unbelieving?

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ peterx,
I have several Scriptures cited about two posts ago, but ehre you go

Romans 8:29:
"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." (TNIV)

I Peter 1:1-2:
"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance." (TNIV).

Joined: 10 Feb 2008 Posts: 650

Peterx, google "double predestination" which is one sticky theological wicket.

Romans 9

[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! [15] For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” [16] So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [17] For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” [18] So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
(Romans 9:14-18 ESV)

[19] You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” [20] But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” [21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? [22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, [23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— [24] even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
(Romans 9:19-24 ESV)

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

Very Good Jim. The answer is in Romans 9:21-23. The Lord CHOSE who to be made into a Vessel of Wrath, and who to be made into a Vessel of Glory. In other words, the Potter made ALL the vessels to HIS liking. The clay does not complain to the pottter, why was I made into such-and-such. Election, and Creation of the Vessels, is a ONE-WAY STREET. Man doesn't get to change the Lord's Election, 13,000 years after the fact!! Get real folks!!

The Lord will reveal our Salvation status in 42 weeks. Most folks on earth will be unhappy with what the Lord has Created them to be. Vessels of Wrath, even though the churches LIED and told them they were vessels of Glory. ALL, 100% of the division of the human race occurred BEFORE Creation.