Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@Paul,

Yes, I speak tough. Some my view my tough talk, as hatred for my fellow man. That's not true. I love my fellow man, and want the best outcome possible for them. But, I know the Bible declares only a remnant will be saved (Rom 11:5; etc). Meaning, the majority will be 'lost'. Meaning most of our family members, even ourselves, are at HIGH risk of destruction.

One-third of the world claims a relationship with Christ. I'm guessing most claim they are saved. Hopefully, we can see the problem. Too many people have been promised Salvation by corrupt preachers. Meaning, MOST of those claiming Salvation, are really NOT saved at all. What about folks who have spent 20, 30, 50 years in a church setting, and get left behind? The mental anguish alone will be intense, let alone all the physical destruction.

I want folks to be mentally prepared for the disappointment that will be happening, in now 306 days. My tough talk is NOTHING, compared to the FIERCE ANGER and WRATH of the Lord (Isa 13:9), being poured out WITHOUT MERCY, upon our loved ones.

Incidentially, Paul, you make this statement without realizing the implications:

"The only thing that is being argued here is the sequence of events-belief & repentance then salvation, or salvation then belief & repentance; in other words, which came first, the chicken or the egg."

Do you really think it's that simple? Just toss the coin, it doesn't matter which way Salvation occured? Both end up at the same place? Well, there is a HUGE difference.

1) If we claim, Belief and Repentence, THEN Salvation:

That means MAN get's partial credit for assiting in his Salvation. Salvation COULD NOT OCCUR, without man making the first move. That the Atonement was not sufficient, and man has to assist in completing the Salvation process.

Result: Eternal death sentance

2) If we claim Salvation, THEN Belief and Repentence:

God gets lifted up, and gets ALL the GLORY. Man gets 0 Glory. Man recognizes he is powerless in accuring Salvation of his own free will. Man regonizes he is 100% at the mercy of the Lord. He recognizes his proper role in the Creator-creature relationship. Man recognizes God COMPLETED the work of the Atonement, unassisted. God, as Soverign King is acknowledged.

Result: Eternal lfe

As you can see, it's not just a simple coin toss. As everlasting destruction, is not the same as eternal life!! Make NO mistake, claiming you assisted, in even the slightest way, WILL BRING GOD"S WRATH, GUARANTEED!!

Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 142

Witness,

You treated my post just as you interpret Scripture. You pulled statements out of context you felt you could argue with and completely missed the whole point. Since you ignored most of what I said, let me repeat it:

"This debate isn't even a debate. No one has ever tried to 'make the physical command of repent and believe the CAUSE of Salvation', as WT has repeatedly claimed. He has admitted that "repent, believe, and faith" are "commands in the Bible". However, since man's free will is bound by his sin nature since the fall, that repentance, belief, and faith are only possible when the Holy Spirit releases the free will from the sin nature and draws an individual to repentance, belief, and faith. The only thing that is being argued here is the sequence of events-belief & repentance then salvation, or salvation then belief & repentance; in other words, which came first, the chicken or the egg. Paul told the Philippian jailer, "believe and you will be saved", not "be saved and you will believe", but since God is not bound by time, is there any point in arguing over whether one action occurs before the other?"

Time means nothing to God, as is stated in 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4. Man's finite pea brain is incapable of even attempting to compartmentalize God's thinking and actions into his own feeble understanding. You have the whole process laid out step by step in an exact timetable, yet Paul told the jailer "believe and you will be saved". He did not say "be saved and you will believe", so according to your line of thinking, Paul was a heretical liar because he put the word believe ahead of the words be saved. Did Paul lie to the jailer, or didn't he? It's a simple yes or no question you have been asked before. If you reply to this the first word of your post should be "yes" or "no".

As I have stated previously, election and free will are both supported in Scripture. The problem is staunch Arminians tend to ignore the passages about election/predestination, just as Hypercalvinists do the ones that support free will. Or in HC's case, they are part of "God's testing program". The thing that can't be ignored is that they both exist. God uses both together in His infinite knowledge. How does He accomplish this? That's something only He knows and understands. What I do know is both are undeniably supported in Scripture. You asked if I think it's simple. No, I don't think it's simple at all. Only God can use two concepts together that seem to be exactly opposite.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,
You say "Some my view my tough talk, as hatred for my fellow man. That's not true. I love my fellow man, and want the best outcome possible for them." If you truly love your fellow man, (as you say you do) you have an odd way of showing it

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@paul,

Free-will as a CAUSE of Salvation, is NOT supported when the ENTIRE Bible is examined.

If The Lord Jesus Christ made the Election, and sin payment, BEFORE the world began (cementing the True Heirs in His Will, the Lambs Book of Life), what could you possibly claim YOU did 13,000+ years later to assist?

UTTER NONSENSE!!! FROM CHURCH WEEDS, beholden to corrupt church doctrine demanding man get SOME credit for his Salvation!!

If you are TRUSTING IN ANY ACTION YOU TOOK, to accuire Salvation, YOU ARE GUARANTEED TO BE UNREGENERATED TODAY!! It's that simple. Christ gets 100% of the Glory. Man gets 0. You church folks are about to find out the hard way, how jealous the Lord is of His Salvation plan.

Hint: Study the man who was stoned to death for picking up a few sticks on the 'day of rest'. (Num 15). A picture of the punishmnet of those 'working' for their Salvation.

FOOLS!!

Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 142

Witness, you are so wrapped up in your hyper-Calvinistic view of salvation you refuse to accept that the words repent and believe are even in the Bible. For the last time, I have never said free will was a "cause of salvation ". I agree that free will is not Scripturally supported as a "cause of salvation", but the existence of free will is supported in Scripture, just as is election. Many passages have been cited; it's not necessary to list them again since you discount them all. God uses both election and free will together in His perfect wisdom. I challenge you to go back and find one time when I have said that salvation was accomplished in any way other than by grace through faith. When the passages that support free will are considered your extreme hyper-Calvinistic view of God dragging one "kicking and screaming", so to speak, to Salvation is not supported. Since you are so entrenched and refuse to even listen to Biblical correction to the point of misquoting my statements, there will be no further discussion with you on this topic.

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@paul,

As a church weed, you have NO witness for Christ. You and J, are in OPEN REBELLION AGAINST THE KING OF KINGS, and yet you want to proclaim Biblical Truth?

A GOOD Tree, only bears GOOD FRUIT. A bad tree, only bears bad fruit.

Scripture is ALWAYS True. Quoting Scripture, and then providing corrupt commentary, is satan's tool of the trade. You claim you understand Repent and Believe don't cause Salvation, and in the next sentence, you declare how man has to participate in the Salvation process. Man has NO free-will. If the Lord didn't choose you, you have NO POSSIBILITY of Salvation. Yet, the churches keep promising the fools in the congregations Salvation. Based on what? That Christ picked them? NO! That they have to do A-Z, THEN you are saved. I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year.

Really, it's pointless for me to challenge the church weeds. You are all bound like sardines in a can waiting for Judgment Day. You can't hear a thing. If you could, you would have fled the dragon in your church, and you would be proclaiming the day of the Lord's return, May 21, 2011.

Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 142

Witnessoflies, do not misquote and twist my words to support your belief system. You said

Quote

You claim you understand Repent and Believe don't cause Salvation, and in the next sentence, you declare how man has to participate in the Salvation process.

What I said was God uses both election and free will together in His perfect wisdom. I challenge you to go back and find one time when I have said that salvation was accomplished in any way other than by grace through faith. When the passages that support free will are considered your extreme hyper-Calvinistic view of God dragging one "kicking and screaming", so to speak, to Salvation is not supported.
You said

Quote

Yet, the churches keep promising the fools in the congregations Salvation. Based on what? That Christ picked them? NO! That they have to do A-Z, THEN you are saved.

True, some churches have fallen away from the truth, but NOT ALL have, and for you to claim that they have is ludricrous and has no Scriptural backing. Unless you have been in EVERY individual church and heard what they preach, you have no basis to make that blanket judgment. Anyway read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation again. God did not remove the candlestick from ALL churches, only the unfaithful.
You said

Quote

I hate the LIARS in the churches.

In an earlier post you said, "Some my view my tough talk, as hatred for my fellow man. That's not true. I love my fellow man, and want the best outcome possible for them." Which is it, love or hate? 1 Cor. 13:1, "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." Statements like "I hate so and so" do not come from a heart of love. You are a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal not worth listening to until you see the deceipt that you are under and repent of it. I and others have tried to steer you from the heresies you have been blinded by. I pray that you are not too far gone for the Holy Spirit to open your eyes and your heart.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,
You are the one who lacks witness. You deny that Christ shed blood on the cross was our atonement from sin. You deny that it happened on the cross, so clearly you do not understand the sacrifice that Christ made, on the cross. You essentially reject and deny the atoning work of Christ when you refer to the cross as just a demonstration or "prop"

You say "Scripture is ALWAYS True. Quoting Scripture, and then providing corrupt commentary, is satan's tool of the trade." I guess you would know about providing a twisted corrupt commentary wouldn't you, seen as how that seems to be all you are able to do, is use Scripture to fuel your isogesis.

Also, you have said that you love your fellow man, then you make this claim, "I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year." So you love and hate? Here is what Scripture has to say about hate,

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him." I Jn. 2:9-11 (NIV).

You claim that you have truth, yet you say you hate the "liars" in the church. Verse 11 says whoever hates his brother is in darkness. The one who hates has been blinded and cannot see where he is going. Hate is the absence of the deeds of love, and where there is hate, there is no light only darkness. Those who hold onto hate, are walking in the darkness. I am not twisting anything you said here, you may try to, but you said it yourself, you said -
"I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year."

So if you are hating, as you yourself said, then you are not walking in the light, but walking blindly in the darkness.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,
You are the one who lacks witness. You deny that Christ shed blood on the cross was our atonement from sin. You deny that it happened on the cross, so clearly you do not understand the sacrifice that Christ made, on the cross. You essentially reject and deny the atoning work of Christ when you refer to the cross as just a demonstration or "prop"

You say "Scripture is ALWAYS True. Quoting Scripture, and then providing corrupt commentary, is satan's tool of the trade." I guess you would know about providing a twisted corrupt commentary wouldn't you, seen as how that seems to be all you are able to do, is use Scripture to fuel your isogesis.

Also, you have said that you love your fellow man, then you make this claim, "I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year." So you love and hate? Here is what Scripture has to say about hate,

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him." I Jn. 2:9-11 (NIV).

You claim that you have truth, yet you say you hate the "liars" in the church. Verse 11 says whoever hates his brother is in darkness. The one who hates has been blinded and cannot see where he is going. Hate is the absence of the deeds of love, and where there is hate, there is no light only darkness. Those who hold onto hate, are walking in the darkness. I am not twisting anything you said here, you may try to, but you said it yourself, you said -
"I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year."

So if you are hating, as you yourself said, then you are not walking in the light, but walking blindly in the darkness.

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@paul & f3,

Tell the world how man has 'free-will' when, the the work of Salvation was COMPLETED, more than 13,000+ years ago. That no names could be added, or taken away.

Psa 139:19-20 "Surely Thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and Thine enemies take Thy Name in vain."

Psa 139:21-22 "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate Thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against Thee? I hate them with Perfect Hatred: I count them Mine enemies."

Psa 139:23-24 "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts. And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the Way everlasting."

If you are still the local congregations, as of May 1988, you are an enemy of Christ. If His enemy, then you are my enemy. Yet, I continue to bring Truth to you, an act of love.

Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 142

As usual sidestep the issue with the same statements out of the library. You are so entrenched in your delusion and devotion to your leader, Harold Camping, you refuse to listen to reason or Biblical correction. I'm through casting pearls to swine.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,
you chose to ignore what was placed right in front of you, so i'll say it again.

You have said that you love your fellow man, then you make this claim, "I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year." So you love and hate? Here is what Scripture has to say about hate,

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him." I Jn. 2:9-11 (NIV).

You claim that you have truth, yet you say you hate the "liars" in the church. Verse 11 says whoever hates his brother is in darkness. The one who hates has been blinded and cannot see where he is going. Hate is the absence of the deeds of love, and where there is hate, there is no light only darkness. Those who hold onto hate, are walking in the darkness. I am not twisting anything you said here, you may try to, but you said it yourself, you said -
"I hate the LIARS in the churches. The dragon, and his followers, will be incinerated next year."

So if you are hating, as you yourself said, then you are not walking in the light, but walking blindly in the darkness.

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

Psa 139:19-20 "Surely Thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and Thine enemies take Thy Name in vain."

Psa 139:21-22 "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate Thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against Thee? I hate them with Perfect Hatred: I count them Mine enemies."

Psa 139:23-24 "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts. And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the Way everlasting."

The Lord's enemies, are my enemies. I am to 'love' my enemies, by sharing Truth (Christ) with them. Perhaps the Lord will convert an emeny into a friend. But really, you are only in REBELLION AGAINST the Lord, because the Lord needs bodies for Judgment day. Maybe even myself. The vessels of wrath were chosen to destruction, before the world began. Just as the one's who were saved. Your eternal destiny was decided by the Lord 13,000+ years ago.

I don't blame anyone for their spiritual condition. It was all by design. Man has no control over his spiritual health. Unless you were hand picked to Glory, before the world began, you will end up as human firewood in 42 weeks.

Joined: 12 Jul 2010 Posts: 85

@ Witness,
you do not share love, or anything close to it, plain and simple

Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 644

@f3,

Not feeling the love f3? Used to the warm hugs your church carelessly toss out? Not used to hearing Biblical Truth? That the True Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will DESTROY 98-99% of ALL humanity since Creation. Better get used to my harsh words. It's only going to get worse. The Lord is right behind me with inifinte fury. You church folks dwell in an Alice in Wonderland environment.

You are about to experience your worst nightmare x 100, and you church folks are in LA-LA land. Thinking how mean I am!! I'm telling you the Truth! You are about to be annihilated in 42 weeks. This IS LOVE. The churches peddle a soft message so as not to scare people off. The churches aren't stupid. They are marketers. They are SELLING a 'happy' message to all that will listen. The fools show up, and drop $ 20.00 bucks in the plate, and think all is well. What a racket. You are about to be beaten to a bloody pulp, and you pay the churches to tell you everything is ok.

Amazing!!

Exd 15:3 "The LORD is a Man of War: The LORD is His Name."

Jer 51:20-21 "Thou art My battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms. And with thee will I break in pieces the horse and his rider; and with thee will I break in pieces the chariot and his rider."

Jer 51:22-23 "With thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; and with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid. I will also break in pieces with thee the shepherd and his flock; and with thee will I break in pieces the husbandman and his yoke of oxen; and with thee will I break in pieces captains and rulers."

1Sa 2:10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them."

Isa 13:9 "Behold, the Day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

Nah 1:2 "God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserveth wrath for His enemies."