Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 800

That was truly a typo earlier.
I meant to say, that I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THIS VERSE, NOT THAT YOU KNOW YOURSELF THAT YOU ARE ARE IN OPPOSITION TO THIS VERSE.

I personally believe that you are disobeying this verse in God's Word.

My interpretation of this verse does not come from my church pastor, because he never preached on this verse that I can recall. My interpretation of this verse stands just as it reads, that we should submit to Godly elders and deacons in a faithful local church.
I agree that we should not stay in a totally apostate church, or submit to a totally false gospel pastor, elder, or deacon.

But hypothetically speaking, if a faithful church exists today, and I believe my church is faithful, then this verses stands literally just as it reads.

Can you give me your interpretatin of these verses please?

7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.

17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Thanks,
Jim

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

Quote

Jim B.: Can you give me your interpretatin of these verses please?

7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.

17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

That is a very nice way of asking me, Jim.

First, as I posted earlier in a reply to Frank, I believe that elders are a type of every true believer who merely mimick the official "rule" of Christ.

Secondly, certain words like "rule" should be studied and compared. I have posted definititions for some of these words in previous posts. I wonder if you missed them.

Now, I expect that you will disagree with my interpretation, but this is how a discussion goes. We all share our very different views and if we believe we are on solid ground, there is never a need to start accusing anyone of bitterness, disobedience or being unsaved.

There are a few unanswered questions that I have raised in other posts which you might want to offer your own (not "any person's")interpretation on. My replies and questions to other members are not restricted to only those individuals.

Also, when you post verses and request my interpretation, you should always include the verse's reference. The verses you and Frank post are sometimes hard for me to locate in my different version, so I need to see the reference. That's the only way I can offer a complete answer.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 800

Hebrews chapter 13:

(New King James Version)

7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines.

17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

Thanks for the references. I have offered my understanding on the verses. If you have any other questions, I hope to be back later.

Thanks.

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 813

Fixedheart wrote

Quote

As soon as you said that references to elders in the New Testament have no application to human leaders but are merely veiled references to Christ

If I did say this, I need to make correction. Unlike you, Frank, I'm not teaching in these discussions. I am LEARNING. (Imagine that.)These discussions provide me with really good questions that prompt me to keep searching and sometimes I have to alter my position (be corrected) as I go along.

I do not believe that the elders in the Bible "have no application" to human leaders" and are only "veiled references to Christ". I believe they are distinct references to every true believer who is part of the church (called out of darkness into His marvellous light, which is the body of Christ) BEFORE the testimony of the two witnesses was finished.

I don't agree with a lot of things you say either Frank and I may have even felt like giving up a few times in frustration over your stance on the spiritual meaning being "SECONDARY". However, I'm still willing to answer your questions - or anyone's, as long as they don't change the subject by suggesting that I be placed on "ignore" status.

Fixedheart,
Please....you are truly delusional if you believe that you have not done any "teaching" on this forum. Everytime you post a Scripture with your interpretation of it, you are teaching. We are all doing the same thing here. These types of personal jabs are one reason I have been hesitant to respond to your quesions recently. It seems you are incapable of keeping the discussion on the issues themselves. Every time I think our discussion is starting to become reasonable, you inject another personal dig into the conversation. All that does is bait me to respond to you in the same manner, and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

Frank,

I share your weariness in this discussion. It's not fruitful for us to continue. We're both solidly convicted of our very different opinions regarding what the church is and what it was meant to be. I still appreciate the discussion we had because it has given me quite a lot of food for thought and further study.

Thank you, Frank. Be well.

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 813

Fixedheart wrote

Frank,

I share your weariness in this discussion. It's not fruitful for us to continue. We're both solidly convicted of our very different opinions regarding what the church is and what it was meant to be. I still appreciate the discussion we had because it has given me quite a lot of food for thought and further study.

Thank you, Frank. Be well.

Fixedheart,
I appreciate your desire to end the discussion on a positive tone. As I've told you before, I think you do a great job debunking many of Camping's other errors. I guess we just aren't going to see eye to eye on the issue of Depart Out though. I don't think this means we can't discuss any aspects of this doctrine ever again... I think I just need a bit of a break.

Take care,
Frank