Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - A Reminder To The Satanic Date-Setters

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 346

TrueBeliever,

It is not 722,500 days. It is 722,499 days (according to Mr. Camping). But since Mr. Camping couldn't break down 722,499 days, he used a trick. He calls it 722,500 days "inclusively" (rather than measuring the time span in the conventional way, he counts the beginning day and the end day as a full days.)

So don't forget to say 722,500 days "inclusively!"

Marc

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

LAMBSFURY wrote

That is your "infallible proof?"

You are joking....right?

722,400 days = 43x7x5x5x4x4x3x2

Why don't you say 722,400 is special?

You can find all sorts of numbers that break down...

That means nothing...

It is only because when a path becomes "Camping approved" then all of a sudden it becomes some "infallible proof"

Now, unless you actually find a verse that states:

"Christ will return 722,500 days after the Cross"

Then your "infallible proof" means nothing...

As you know perfectly well, 722,500 breaks down into (5x10x17)x(5x10x17).

Is it coincidental that there are exactly 722,500 days from April 1, 33AD(Picture of Judgment Day) to May 21, 2011(The Judgment Day)? And the set of factors is squared?? SQUARED? Whenever something is doubled in the Bible...you know what, I don't even have to finish this sentence.

Another huge proof is the 7000 years from Noah's Flood, confirming 2011AD. Is 2Peter 3:8 and Gen 7:4 just coincidental?

Even your Eternal Torment colleagues (David Hoff, Paul Aarons, Dan Habig, and others) agree with May 21, 2011.

It's going to happen, and you probably know it too but you won't admit it.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

Like all the infallible time paths of 1994...

Dozens of them

Not to mention 10 failed dates from 1994-1996

And your logic is "Oh well, uh, but this time it's going to happen....God would never let the cult down again"

Sorry!

2011 is not 7,000 years to the flood

There is no statement that says "Christ will return after 722,500"

Notice how deceptive your cult is...

You KNOW there is no verse that says Christ will return after 722,500 days....it all comes by "progressive revelation"

Just as there is no verse that states the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 began May 21, 1988

Your doctrine does not come from the Bible

You have added to it - Rev 22:18

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

Marc wrote

TrueBeliever,

It is not 722,500 days. It is 722,499 days (according to Mr. Camping). But since Mr. Camping couldn't break down 722,499 days, he used a trick. He calls it 722,500 days "inclusively" (rather than measuring the time span in the conventional way, he counts the beginning day and the end day as a full days.)

So don't forget to say 722,500 days "inclusively!"

Marc

I don't think this is inclusive. 1978 years x 365.2422 = 722,449.0716 days.

So from April 1, 33AD to March 31, 2011 = 722,449.0716 days.

Then you add April 1, 2011 to May 21, 2011 = 51 days.

That's not inclusive.

Even if it were inclusive, the Bible allows for it in Matthew 1:17 as there could not be 52 generations unless you add inclusively because you are using David twice.

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

TrueBeliever wrote

Marc wrote

TrueBeliever,

It is not 722,500 days. It is 722,499 days (according to Mr. Camping). But since Mr. Camping couldn't break down 722,499 days, he used a trick. He calls it 722,500 days "inclusively" (rather than measuring the time span in the conventional way, he counts the beginning day and the end day as a full days.)

So don't forget to say 722,500 days "inclusively!"

Marc

I don't think this is inclusive. 1978 years x 365.2422 = 722,449.0716 days.

So from April 1, 33AD to March 31, 2011 = 722,449.0716 days.

Then you add April 1, 2011 to May 21, 2011 = 51 days.

That's not inclusive.

Even if it were inclusive, the Bible allows for it in Matthew 1:17 as there could not be 52 generations unless you add inclusively because you are using David twice.

Oops, it is inclusive haha but it makes sense that it is inclusive.

We are going from April 1st, 33AD(Cross, the picture of Judgment Day) to and including May 21, 2011, THE Day of Judgment.

Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 346

True Believer,

You wrote,

Quote

True Believers do not need "evidence" or "proofs" that the Bible was preserved. We trust in God implicitly and we therefore trust the BIBLE is nothing more and nothing less than the unadulterated Word of God!

Please clarify. What do you mean when you say "the Bible." Where is this "Bible" you are talking about? There are many editions of the Bible. Which edition is this letter perfect Bible you are talking about? There are many editions of the Masoretic Text. Which of the editions is the perfect Word of God? You speak of a perfect Bible, but refuse to tell us where this Bible can be located. You say that it is important to have every single number and letter of the Bible exactly as God wrote it. You tell us that every number and letter is significant. And yet you refuse to tell us where we can find this perfect, unadulterated text!

TrueBeliever, the historical Christian doctrine of inerrancy holds that the Bible was inerrant when it was first delivered to the prophets and apostles. You are teaching a doctrine of inerrancy that the reformers rejected. Your position allows you to be ensnared by mystical teachings that play games with the Bible letters and numbers.

Again, I ask you, what good is it to continue saying that God preserved his Word to the letter, if you don't tell us where we can find this letter perfect text?

Thank you for your willingness to discuss this issue, and thank you in advance for clarifying where we can find the letter perfect Bible you keep referring to.

Marc

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

He is going to dodge the question....

He will keep saying "God gave us the letter perfect Bible"

And won't say where it is....

With hundreds of Bible translations, which one is it?

He may say the 1611 KJV, because that is what his "organization" tells him...with no proof as to why.

But then he had to admit that there was no Bible for the first 1600 years of Christianity, until King James came along....

I guess God did not give any believer the "perfect Bible" for the first 1600 years of Christianity...

God waited until Family Radio came into the world....because only Family Radio is God's one true love....

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

Marc wrote

True Believer,

You wrote,

Quote

True Believers do not need "evidence" or "proofs" that the Bible was preserved. We trust in God implicitly and we therefore trust the BIBLE is nothing more and nothing less than the unadulterated Word of God!

Please clarify. What do you mean when you say "the Bible." Where is this "Bible" you are talking about? There are many editions of the Bible. Which edition is this letter perfect Bible you are talking about? There are many editions of the Masoretic Text. Which of the editions is the perfect Word of God? You speak of a perfect Bible, but refuse to tell us where this Bible can be located. You say that it is important to have every single number and letter of the Bible exactly as God wrote it. You tell us that every number and letter is significant. And yet you refuse to tell us where we can find this perfect, unadulterated text!

TrueBeliever, the historical Christian doctrine of inerrancy holds that the Bible was inerrant when it was first delivered to the prophets and apostles. You are teaching a doctrine of inerrancy that the reformers rejected. Your position allows you to be ensnared by mystical teachings that play games with the Bible letters and numbers.

Again, I ask you, what good is it to continue saying that God preserved his Word to the letter, if you don't tell us where we can find this letter perfect text?

Thank you for your willingness to discuss this issue, and thank you in advance for clarifying where we can find the letter perfect Bible you keep referring to.

Marc

Marc,

I don't understand how you can believe anything in the Bible if you do not believe it is 100% the infallible Word of God? How does one believe 90% of the Bible is inerrant, and 10% is in error? How does one believe 90% of anything?

I'm not a Bible Scholar, so how could I answer your question? All that matters is, I believe the MT/Textus Receptus that we have is 100% the Infallible Word of God. The rest is unimportant to me.

We are 15 months away from the End of the World, and you are absolutely no different from the Atheists who doubt the Bible. Scoffers are all alike. They scoff because contrary to their words and public confessions, they in their heart do not believe the Word of God. Either you believe the Bible 100%, or you do not believe it at all.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

The Bible is the 100% infallible Word of God "in its original manuscripts"

We do not have those original manuscripts...just "copies" which are subject to copy errors...

The KJV was not translated from the TR, but the 1550 version of Stephanus

Which differs from the TR in over 200 places..

And since the Greek says "75 souls" in Acts 7:14, and Exodus 1:5 in the MT says "70 souls" then you must decide which is correct....because both can't be.

Especially as the DSS Hebrew says "75 souls" in Exodus 1:5

So, again, which is correct...Acts 7:14 in the Greek or Exodus 1:5 in the MT?

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

Gen 46

8 And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob’s firstborn.
9 And the sons of Reuben; Hanoch, and Phallu, and Hezron, and Carmi.
10 And the sons of Simeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Ohad, and Jachin, and Zohar, and Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman.
11 And the sons of Levi; Gershon, Kohath, and Merari.
12 And the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Pharez, and Zerah: but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Pharez were Hezron and Hamul.
13 And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron.
14 And the sons of Zebulun; Sered, and Elon, and Jahleel.
15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.
16 And the sons of Gad; Ziphion, and Haggi, Shuni, and Ezbon, Eri, and Arodi, and Areli.
17 And the sons of Asher; Jimnah, and Ishuah, and Isui, and Beriah, and Serah their sister: and the sons of Beriah; Heber, and Malchiel.
18 These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter, and these she bare unto Jacob, even sixteen souls.
19 The sons of Rachel Jacob’s wife; Joseph, and Benjamin.
20 And unto Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him.
21 And the sons of Benjamin were Belah, and Becher, and Ashbel, Gera, and Naaman, Ehi, and Rosh, Muppim, and Huppim, and Ard.
22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.
23 And the sons of Dan; Hushim.
24 And the sons of Naphtali; Jahzeel, and Guni, and Jezer, and Shillem.
25 These are the sons of Bilhah, which Laban gave unto Rachel his daughter, and she bare these unto Jacob: all the souls were seven.
26 All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives, all the souls were threescore and six;
27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.

Gen 46 confirms Exodus 1:5

70 souls.

Levi + Gershon, Kohath, Merari = 4
Judah + Er, Onan, Shelah, Pharez, Zerah, Herzron, Hamul = 8
Issachar + Tola, Phuvah, Job, Shimron = 5
Zebulun + Sered, Elon, Jahleel = 4

== 33

Gad + Ziphion, Haggi, Shuni, Ezbon, Eri, Arodi, Areli = 8
Asher + Jimnah, Ishuah, Isui, Beriah, Sera, Hebre, Malchiel = 8

== 16

Joseph + Manasseh, Ephraim = 3
Benjamin + Belah, Becher, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim, Ard = 11

== 14 Rachel

Dan + Hushim = 2
Naphtali + Jahzeel, Guni, JEzer, Shillem = 5

== 7 Bilhah

== 70

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

And Acts 7:14 confirm 75 souls...

And there are 5 extra names listed in the LXX, in Genesis 46

So, it is clear that Stephen is quoting the LXX

Not the MT that we use today...

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

LAMBSFURY wrote

And Acts 7:14 confirm 75 souls...

And there are 5 extra names listed in the LXX, in Genesis 46

So, it is clear that Stephen is quoting the LXX

Not the MT that we use today...

Right, and who are the five extra names?

Are they from the loins of Jacob? Acts 7:14 doesn't say that. It just says KINDRED, which could mean relatives.

Gen 46
31 And Joseph said unto his brethren, and unto his father’s house, I will go up, and shew Pharaoh, and say unto him, My brethren, and my father’s house, which were in the land of Canaan, are come unto me;

Fathers house would be all the souls that came from Jacob's loins.
Brethren could be his relatives that did not come from Jacob's loins.

32 And the men are shepherds, for their trade hath been to feed cattle; and they have brought their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have.
33 And it shall come to pass, when Pharaoh shall call you, and shall say, What is your occupation?
34 That ye shall say, Thy servants’ trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Gen 47
1 ¶ Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.
2 And he took some of his brethren, even five men, and presented them unto Pharaoh.

So, Joseph presented to pharaoh five brethren, yet these brethren were never mentioned by name. Why not? Because they were not of Jacob's house, but five unknown relatives.

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 1244

So now we have a clearer picture of who came out from Canaan with Jacob.

Ex 1:5, Gen 46 tells us 70 people of Jacob's loins came out of Canaan.

But Acts 7:14 and Gen 47:2 tells us the total number of Jacob's kindred was 75 people, including five male relatives who were shepherds.

MT is 100% the WORD OF GOD. DSS has been proven to be inferior to the MT. LXX doesn't even enter into the picture as it's history is shrouded in uncertain and dubious facts.

You scoffers will likewise be proven false on May 21, 2011 when you are left behind.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1052

"And all the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, who came out of his loins, besides the wives of the sons of Jacob, [even] all the souls were SIXTY-SIX. And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in the land of Egypt, were NINE souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob who came with Joseph into Egypt, were SEVENTY-FIVE SOULS" Genesis 46:26-27 (The Septuagint)

"And there were sons born to Joseph in the land of Egypt, whom Aseneth, the daughter of Petephres, priest of Heliopolis, bore to him, [even] Manasses and Ephraim. And there were sons born to Manasses, which the Syrian concubine bore to him, [even] Machir. And Machir begot Galaad. And the sons of Ephraim, the brother of Manasses; Sutalaam, and Taam. And the sons of Sutalaam; Edom." Genesis 46:20 (The Seputagint)

Five names are mentioned in the Septuagint that are "dropped" from the Masoretic Text in Genesis 46:20...

1. Machir
2. Galaad
3. Sutalaam
4. Taam
5. Edom

75 souls came to Egypt...

We have another witness on the accuracy of the LXX's account of 75 souls in addition to Acts 7:14.....and that is DSS 4QEx[a] of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Fragment DSS 4QEx[a], found at Qumran, in Hebrew, supports the LXX reading of Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5, of 75 SOULS, making the LXX's textual witness stronger.

This fragment, written IN HEBREW, is 1000 YEARS OLDER than the current Hebrew we have today....

That means we can conclude 3 things:

1. The LXX is more accurate than the MT we use today as far as verses like Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5

2. The MT is inaccurate about these verses, and it shows that the MT can be erroneous.

3. The Hebrew that the LXX used to translate from is a "different" and "more ancient" Hebrew than the MT we have today.

In addition, we have 2 great witnesses to the accuracy of the LXX regarding Exodus 1:5 and the 75 souls.

1. Acts 7:14, the Word of God.

2. Fragment DSS 4QEx[a] in the ancient Hebrew on Exodus 1:5, that is 1000 years older than the MT used today.

The problem people have is that they don't look at the evidence, they let their judgment get clouded by their traditions of worshipping the masoretic antichrist Jews, and their obsession with their personal calendars, as they try to prove to everybody that they are some special apostate prophet that is to be obeyed...

Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 454

LAMBSFURY wrote

"And all the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, who came out of his loins, besides the wives of the sons of Jacob, [even] all the souls were SIXTY-SIX. And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in the land of Egypt, were NINE souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob who came with Joseph into Egypt, were SEVENTY-FIVE SOULS" Genesis 46:26-27 (The Septuagint)

"And there were sons born to Joseph in the land of Egypt, whom Aseneth, the daughter of Petephres, priest of Heliopolis, bore to him, [even] Manasses and Ephraim. And there were sons born to Manasses, which the Syrian concubine bore to him, [even] Machir. And Machir begot Galaad. And the sons of Ephraim, the brother of Manasses; Sutalaam, and Taam. And the sons of Sutalaam; Edom." Genesis 46:20 (The Seputagint)

The problem people have is that they don't look at the evidence, they let their judgment get clouded by their traditions of worshipping the masoretic antichrist Jews, and their obsession with their personal calendars, as they try to prove to everybody that they are some special apostate prophet that is to be obeyed...

What's really interesting is the Josephus, who lived 37AD to 100AD, never heard of 75 people coming into Egypt with Jacob, nor of the 5 "extra" sons of Joseph the LXX mentions. How could it be that Josephus, who read Hebrew and Greek, and spent a major portion of his life documenting Jewish history and beliefs, never heard of 75? Never heard of the 5 "extra" sons?

Josephus, Antiquity of the Jews, Book II, Chapter 7, Section 4 wrote

4. Jacob, encouraged by this dream, went on more cheerfully for Egypt with his sons, and all belonging to them. Now they were in all seventy. I once, indeed, thought it best not to set down the names of this family, especially because of their difficult pronunciation [by the Greeks]; but, upon the whole, I think it necessary to mention those names, that I may disprove such as believe that we came not originally from Mesopotamia, but are Egyptians. Now Jacob had twelve sons; of these Joseph was come thither before. We will therefore set down the names of Jacob's children and grandchildren. Reuben had four sons - Anoch, Phallu, Assaron, Charmi. Simeon had six - Jamuel, Jamin, Avod, Jachin, Soar, Saul. Levi had three sons - Gersom, Caath, Merari. Judas had three sons - Sala, Phares, Zerah; and by Phares two grandchildren, Esrom and Amar. Issachar had four sons - Thola, Phua, Jasob, Samaron. Zabulon had with him three sons - Sarad, Helon, Jalel. So far is the posterity of Lea; with whom went her daughter Dinah. These are thirty-three. Rachel had two sons, the one of whom, Joseph, had two sons also, Manasses and Ephraim. The other, Benjamin, had ten sons - Bolau, Bacchar, Asabel, Geras, Naaman, Jes, Ros, Momphis, Opphis, Arad. These fourteen added to the thirty-three before enumerated, amount to the number forty-seven. And this was the legitimate posterity of Jacob. He had besides by Bilhah, the handmaid of Rachel, Dan and Nephtliali; which last had four sons that followed him - Jesel, Guni, Issari, and Sellim. Dan had an only begotten son, Usi. If these be added to those before mentioned, they complete the number fifty-four. Gad and Aser were the sons of Zilpha, who was the handmaid of Lea. These had with them, Gad seven - Saphoniah, Augis, Sunis, Azabon, Aerin, Erocd, Ariel. Aser had a daughter, Sarah, and six male children, whose names were Jomne, Isus, Isoui, Baris, Abar and Melchiel. If we add these, which are sixteen, to the fifty-four, the forementioned number [70] is completed (11) Jacob not being himself included in that number.
Antiquities of the Jews

If I didn't know better, I'd say Josephus was reading this directly out of the King James Bible. So it would seem the Hebrew Bible that Josephus was familiar with in the first century is in perfect agreement with the Masoretic text of 1000AD, and the Bomberg/ben Asher text of the 1500's, and the one we have today.

Like you said "The problem people have is that they don't look at the evidence"...