Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - Former Camping Colleague: Revelation Lectures of Dr. Otero

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

This man was colleague of HC for many years, working at Family Radio as head of the "School of the Bible". He has graduate degree in ancient languages. He does not agree with Camping.

Ongoing Dr Otero Revelation Lectures as of October 2009.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

Has anyone been listening to these lectures? This fellow is supposed to be the most informed opponent of HC's teachings, outside of maybe James White? His overriding hermeneutical principle seems to be "Anything But Camping" (ABC).

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

Apparently the two witnesses of Revelation 11 are two actual men; like Zerubbabel and Joshua the high priest... But they are going to be Moses and Elijah before the end. Why? Because they could not be the believers in the temple: no, not possible.

http://bbcmh.dreamhosters.com/Sermons/2010/1992E.m3u

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

Associate Pastor, Greg Tomlinson, in a good first effort shows that he is not yet equipped to take on this subject... But he sounds so sure of himself... He must know what he is talking about, right?

Will God's judgment day occur on May 21 2011?

Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 454

didymus wrote

Associate Pastor, Greg Tomlinson, in a good first effort shows that he is not yet equipped to take on this subject... But he sounds so sure of himself... He must know what he is talking about, right?

Will God's judgment day occur on May 21 2011?

I only listened for a few minutes but this was my impression: he mentions these dates for the flood:

1) FR track dates flood in 4990 BC
2) BibleWorks "scholars" date flood in 2245 BC
3) Ussher dates flood in 2349 BC

Then, based on the fact that BibleWorks "scholars" and Ussher's date are relatively close to each other, this is proof 4990 BC is spurious. So it would appear a Bible study teacher doesn't need to do his own Bible study to determine which date is correct, he only needs to review the various dates he can find and pick the ones in closest argeement with each other. This reminds me of a Roman Catholic website I came across, where all they do is quote "scholars" when debating Biblical doctrine, rather than going to the Bible directly for themselves.

Someone in the class asked where the 4990 BC date came from. The Bible study leader had no idea. I would think if someone were really interested in knowing whether the 4990 BC date was accurate or not, they would have researched it prior to teaching a Bible class about it. Maybe I'm old fashioned!

Sorta kinda sounds like there was no real interest in finding the date of the flood, or any date for that matter, but rather to question whether we can know a date for anything in the Bible, and with that uncertainty dismiss the tract someone sent him.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

He gets better later on, but still doesn't adduce any evidence you or I would find problemmatic. I actually do recommend that you listen to the remainder as it isn't as bad as his beginning.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

Woman of Revelation is apparently national Israel, not the latter days church. Something about church being a virgin and Israel being betrothed, etc.

http://bbcmh.dreamhosters.com/Sermons/2010/1996E.m3u

Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 53

Clearly Mr Otero doesn't know what he is talking about.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

Test All Things wrote

Clearly Mr Otero doesn't know what he is talking about.

In the next sermon not much happens, so I wouldn't bother with this episode.

He makes an interesting point about this dragon: that he endeavored to prevent the birth of the "man child" (Jesus). He could only attempt to do this if he was privy to the then upcoming advent.

Otero is the most knowledgeable pastor on Camping, but I doubt even he has read most of Camping's books.

http://bbcmh.dreamhosters.com/Sermons/2010/1998E.mp3

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 811

didymus wrote

Otero is the most knowledgeable pastor on Camping, but I doubt even he has read most of Camping's books.

Well you are wrong about that Didymus. I had some personal conversations with Dr. Otero back in the 90s and he told me he had read Mr. Camping's works. All he would say to me was that he had "some problems" with how Camping built his calender and that he didn't want to go into it any further (he was still associated to FR at the time so he had to be very careful about stating any opposition he had to HC's teachings). I don't know how many of Mr. Camping latest books Dr. Otero has read, but he is very familiar with of the foundation of Mr. Camping's doctrines which is the calender.

You seem to have it in your head that everyone who is criticizing Mr. Camping is doing it out of ignorance. If they would only give him a fair hearing they would clearly see that his calendar must be correct, right?

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

frank wrote

didymus wrote

Otero is the most knowledgeable pastor on Camping, but I doubt even he has read most of Camping's books.

Well you are wrong about that Didymus. I had some personal conversations with Dr. Otero back in the 90s and he told me he had read Mr. Camping's works.

I'm not wrong. I said that I doubted that he had read all of his works. What is wrong there? Do you think that he has read everthing since 1994? I'm saying that I don't think that he has - my opinion. As for the stuff prior to that, if you have been listening to his lectures on Revelation, I can tell you that he was virtually submerged and gasping for oxygen when trying to explain the 70 weeks in Daniel. If he has read HC's book on that subject, he didn't absorb it very well at all.

frank wrote

...You seem to have it in your head that everyone who is criticizing Mr. Camping is doing it out of ignorance. If they would only give him a fair hearing they would clearly see that his calendar must be correct, right?

frank, I find this comment sooo disappointing.

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 811

didymus wrote

frank wrote

didymus wrote

Otero is the most knowledgeable pastor on Camping, but I doubt even he has read most of Camping's books.

Well you are wrong about that Didymus. I had some personal conversations with Dr. Otero back in the 90s and he told me he had read Mr. Camping's works.

I'm not wrong. I said that I doubted that he had read all of his works. What is wrong there? Do you think that he has read everthing since 1994? I'm saying that I don't think that he has - my opinion. As for the stuff prior to that, if you have been listening to his lectures on Revelation, I can tell you that he was virtually submerged and gasping for oxygen when trying to explain the 70 weeks in Daniel. If he has read HC's book on that subject, he didn't absorb it very well at all.

Didymus,
If someone can't agree with Adam When or 1994? there is no point moving on to Camping's recent books. His early books lay the foundation for his later books. If you don't think the foundation is sound, it makes no sense to build your house on it.

Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 1378

http://bbcmh.dreamhosters.com/Sermons/2010/2001E.mp3

* Man-child is Christ
* Woman is the church
* Desert is the New Testament period
* Church is protected in the wilderness

Pretty much same as camping here.