Depart Out • Harold Camping • End of the world • church age • Family Radio • View topic - Hold The Fire & Brimstone

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1070

Below is a 5-page article by the LA times that shows how the churches and Christian community all ignore the warnings of eternal torment.

The Camping cult has become just like the apostate churches in their ignoring and denying of eternal torment.

The denying and ignoring of eternal torment by the Christian community is the single greatest indicator of God forsaking the Christian community. The closer we get to eternal torment, the more people will "make it go away"

The sad fact is that the "world" sees the apostasy of the Christian community better than apostate Christians....as they all think some "new unsealing" has taken place. Link Below:

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/19/local/me-hell19

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 652

They do not all ignore the warnings of eternal torment. You speak as if the only church remaining is yourself. According to you Camping friends are out and so is the Corporate Church. Who is left but yourself? I believe you have made worthy contributions to this site, however, being a former Camping friend yourself you still carry the residue of misperception and judgmentalism from your former master. I would encourage you further in your sanctification in casting away your error regarding the Church, as it is merely a residual effect of Campingism. Despite the apostasy, there are still remaining faithful churches of various denominations. I trust you are not claiming to be the only faithful one left as do the Camping friends, a sure mark of cultic thinking. Go to sermonaudio.com and see whether there are any faithful churches left. Unless you are a judgmental Pharisee as are the Camping friends, you must needs admit that Jesus Christ will always have a corporate Church wherein His people may worship Him, for the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church which He has instituted beginning with the apostles (the context is not referring exclusively to the elect as the Camping friends would fancy to justify their depart out heresy). It is God's will for His people to join themselves to a faithful local congregation for their spiritual benefit.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1070

Did the article offend you?

The Los Angeles Times wrote the article.

Not me.

But what they say is true....

The general pattern is that the entire Christian community, whereever they are located, ignore the warnings of eternal torment.

FACT

The reason is that the majority of the Christian community, whether in the churches or out of it, are not elected of God.

Because they are not elected of God, God gives them up to believe a lie, to damn them even more...

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 652

Yes, true, the majority but not all churches are apostate. You were well convinced at one time regarding 2011 and God was merciful in opening your eyes. Tom, it is His will for your further spiritual growth to seek out a faithful congregation and submit yourself to a lawful minister which God has appointed, unless of course you are still holding to the depart out heresy yourself. The Lord corrects us in stages as we are able to bear it. Please try sermonaudio.com as a first step. God grant you wisdom in this matter.

Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Posts: 1070

Peterx..

Many churches have websites....

Show me one website of a church you feel is faithful....

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 652

Are you implying that you are a depart outer yourself? Could it be your heart is still partially clinging to the depart out heresy. It may take time to cleanse oneself from the damaging consequences of a false teacher. I trust the Lord is faithful to complete the good work which He has begun in you. Please go to sermonaudio.com and listen to some sermons especially from reformed preachers and let me know what it is you find unfaithful. There you will also find the churches of the ministers featured.

Regards, Peter

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 792

LAMBSFURY,
I have been through a similiar experience that you have Tom. In the time leading up to 1994, I was involved with a group of people who thought the world will end, and all churches and the christian world was apostate. We would say that only a few people scattered around the world who believed EXACTLY like us were truly saved. I disagreed with the end time dates, and the calendar and was condemned to Hell by these people. However I believed at that time that all churches were apostate, and after more than 20 years of being out of that group, I am still learning where I have been brainwashed by Campingism, and coming to truth.

Like peter has been saying.... Many large denominations have gone apostate. But there are still many good NOT PERFECT non-denominational churches, reformed churches, etc. There has never been a perfect church, as we read about in Revelation 2 and 3, Satan was present in some of the churches from the beginning, but even though Satan was partially in some churches at that time, Christ still did not give up on them, but told them to repent.

There are many subtle teachings and styles of interpretation, that I have held onto without realizing it, but over the past couple years, being on blogs like this have showed me some more of my errors. Pray to God, to be open, and let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth.

Here is the doctrinal statement of my Church, it is a non-denominational Bible Chapel. I will not specifiy my exact church website, because, I do not want it to become the target of the Camping friend Pharisees, who will find fault with every spec found in "eyes" of this church.

Our Vision

The vision of the Bible Chapel is to be a Community of believers who have a healthy and growing relationship with God and each other, and who are making a significant impact on our world for Jesus Christ.

Our Purpose

The purpose of the Bible Chapel is to introduce people to Jesus Christ and to help them become fully devoted followers of Christ who demonstrate their love for God and people by serving one another and sharing the message of Christ with others.

Our Faith Commitment

1) There is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2) The Holy Bible is the inspired, infallible and authoritative source of Christian doctrine and precept.

3) Man was created in the image of God but, as a result of sin, is lost and powerless to save himself.

4) The only hope for man is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the virgin-born Son of God, who died to take upon Himself the punishment for the sin of mankind, and who rose from the dead, so that by receiving Him as Savior and Lord, man is redeemed by His blood.

5) That Jesus Christ will personally return to earth in power and glory. That the Holy Spirit indwells those who receive Christ for the purpose of enabling them to live righteous and holy lives.

6) That the Church is the Body of Christ and is comprised of all those who, through belief in Christ, have been spiritually regenerated by the indwelling Holy Spirit. The mission of the church is worldwide evangelization and the nurture and discipling of Christians.

Here are some of the more detailed statements of faith. My church does not follow any creed or chatechism, these are statements made up by the founders of this Bible Chapel.

Section 8 - Salvation: We believe that salvation is a gift of God in grace, wholly apart from any human merit and is received by man through personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ whose precious blood was shed for the forgiveness of our sins (John 1:12; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8,9). We believe that the sacrifice of the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ was sufficient to pay for the sins of all who have or shall ever live but that it becomes efficacious only for those who will put their faith and trust in Him. We believe that all true believers, once saved are sealed and kept secure in Christ forever. We reject the teaching that a saved man can lose his salvation (Romans 8:1, 27-30,38,39; John 6:37; John 10:27-30). We further believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in virtue of His redemptive work on the cross, and that neither baptism, the Lord's Supper, nor any other rite, ceremony, or work can avail one whit for the sinner's salvation. Christ alone saves (Ephesians 1:7; 2:8, 9).

Section 17 - The Eternal State: We believe that the souls of those who have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation will immediately pass into the presence of the Lord at physical death. There they shall remain in the conscious bliss until the resurrection of the body at His coming for His church (Rapture) and live eternally with the Lord in glory. The souls of unbelievers shall remain after death in conscious torment until the final judgment at the Great White Throne. At that time the soul shall be united with a body fitted for eternal punishment and cast into the Lake of Fire, not to be annihilated, but to be punished, in outer darkness, with everlasting separation from the Lord and from the glory of His power (Luke 16:19; 26; 23-43; II Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23, II Thessalonians 1:7-9; Revelation 20:11-15).

So we can all see that there are still some very good churches around, it may be hard to find a good one, in every area of the world or even America, but if you search hard enough, you will find on that God can bless you and use you to serve Him. It is not the Christian life to sit home by ourselves and study the Bible or listen to the radio/tv. We need to personally fellowship with other believers to grow, even if they do not believe exactly every single doctrine then we do.

Also, a very important part of the Christian life is to serve God, and try to reached unsaved people who know nothing about Christ. If we just stay on blog sites like this and attack each other, Satan has won the victory, by rendering us all useless. If all we know is that, Christ payed for our sins on the Cross, and we share this with others, and know NO other doctrines, this will be a very pleasing life to God.

I hope this helps a litte, God bless us all here with the Spirit of truth and love, through Christ's sacrifice for us.

God Bless,
feel free to email me if you have any questions or comments. I have also studied Mr Camping's Calendar and found many errors in it. If you are interested, I will email you my letter I gave to Mr Camping in 1993, warning him that the world will not end in 1994.
The world will not end in 2011, and the annihilation teaching is from Satan.

God Bless
Jim
jimbbbbb@gmail.com

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

A church's Statment of Beliefs is a superficial indication of what an external, local church is all about. There are many unbiblical, satanic practices being followed in all of these dens of thieves.

Churchmembers, please don't just post your churches' creeds. I would like to attend one in my area in person to see for myself what is going on. As the Sunrise Community Evangelical Free Church of Atlantic Beach, FLA knows and openly states in their Statement of Beliefs, there is (a) the true church and there is (b) the local church.

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JimB: There has never been a perfect church, as we read about in Revelation 2 and 3, Satan was present in some of the churches from the beginning, but even though Satan was partially in some churches at that time, Christ still did not give up on them, but told them to repent.

Christ never gives up on His eternal church, the invisible ekklesia. It was the elect remnant of the external churches who were commanded to repent.

The Apostle Paul was writing to Christ's invisible ekklesia in Corinth:

2 Cor. 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The true church of God was never to compromise with what men consider to be "minor, insignificant imperfections". That is why God has to command us to depart out. Paul is asking the question in v. 16 above:

What agreement hath the temple of God with idols? He, and I would like to know. Maybe this forum needs another List:

"Minor Imperfections of the Church We Can Abide By".

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 811

Fixedheart wrote

The true church of God was never to compromise with what men consider to be "minor, insignificant imperfections". That is why God has to command us to depart out. Paul is asking the question in v. 16 above:

What agreement hath the temple of God with idols? He, and I would like to know. Maybe this forum needs another List:

"Minor Imperfections of the Church We Can Abide By".

Fixedheart,
I don't get it. You frequently criticize other Depart Outers for failing to recognize our need for daily repentance. You don't expect any individual believers including yourself to be perfect. That far, I'm with you. Yet somehow you expect that if you join a bunch of these same "imperfect" individuals together in a group called a church then the result should be something void of any "imperfection". Your doctrine is utterly inconsistant. You expect God to have patience with you as an individual as you sin against him daily. But you expect God to have no patience whatsoever with "the church". If God has no toleration for "minor imperfections", how do explain the fact that despite your continued sin, you believe God has not given up on you??

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

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Fixedheart,
I don't get it. You frequently criticize other Depart Outers for failing to recognize our need for daily repentance. You don't expect any individual believers including yourself to be perfect. That far, I'm with you. Yet somehow you expect that if you join a bunch of these same "imperfect" individuals together in a group called a church then the result should be something void of any "imperfection". Your doctrine is utterly inconsistant. You expect God to have patience with you as an individual as you sin against him daily. But you expect God to have no patience whatsoever with "the church". If God has no toleration for "minor imperfections", how do explain the fact that despite your continued sin, you believe God has not given up on you??

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between the true ekklesia which must constantly repent and the local ekklesia which cannot repent. That isn't my problem. I need the gift of repentance every day and I won't get it from any pastor or church or Family Radio fellowship.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 792

Fixedheart wrote

Quote

Fixedheart,
I don't get it. You frequently criticize other Depart Outers for failing to recognize our need for daily repentance. You don't expect any individual believers including yourself to be perfect. That far, I'm with you. Yet somehow you expect that if you join a bunch of these same "imperfect" individuals together in a group called a church then the result should be something void of any "imperfection". Your doctrine is utterly inconsistant. You expect God to have patience with you as an individual as you sin against him daily. But you expect God to have no patience whatsoever with "the church". If God has no toleration for "minor imperfections", how do explain the fact that despite your continued sin, you believe God has not given up on you??

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between the true ekklesia which must constantly repent and the local ekklesia which cannot repent. That isn't my problem. I need the gift of repentance every day and I won't get it from any pastor or church or Family Radio fellowship.

Fixed,
We all agree with you that there is a difference between the eternal church of truly saved people who will be in Heaven some day, and the external church that consists of saved and unsaved people. The Bible says that we are to fellowship with others in person in a church which is imperfect, and has imperfect saved and unsaved people in it.

Do you believe there was ever a faithful local church in the history of the New Testament? The Bible says there was. you said that the local church can not repent. If that is true, why did Christ say the following, if he knew they could not repent?

Revelation 2
1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent

This is a local church that is not perfect, but Jesus has a lot of good things to say about it, but also warns them about their weaknesses. You have just stated that we are not to be part of any local church, and that a local church can not repent, why did Christ then say many nice things about this church and tell them to repent?

Jim

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

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Do you believe there was ever a faithful local church in the history of the New Testament? The Bible says there was. you said that the local church can not repent. If that is true, why did Christ say the following, if he knew they could not repent?

Yes, there was a faithful church in the NT, as well as the OT and as well as today.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

The elect were gathered together in Antioch. This type of informal and spontaneous gather is much different than the church you belong to. All elect are God's eternal "ekklesia" and we canot see each other. We can never know who our true brothers and sisters are. While we wait for our glorified bodies, we are to wander as strangers on this earth. We do not form little representations of heaven and invite the unwashed and worship God with them.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

"Come out". Come out to where? Another church? No. Come out to Christ and stop hanging out with the wolves in sheeps' clothing who are there to lead the believers astray.

Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 792

Fixed,

Why are you hanging out here in this blog site with us unclean unsaved people who go to church? Shouldn't you just depart out of this "depart out" blog site. You are talking and fellowshipping with us unsaved church people, and unsaved Camping friends, and you might become unclean yourself, by hanging out with us.

So I suggest that you find a nice mountain top that is far away from all of the sins of the people of the world, and be perfect or not perfect all by yourself.

Can you see our point?

Jim

Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 811

Fixedheart wrote

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Fixedheart,
I don't get it. You frequently criticize other Depart Outers for failing to recognize our need for daily repentance. You don't expect any individual believers including yourself to be perfect. That far, I'm with you. Yet somehow you expect that if you join a bunch of these same "imperfect" individuals together in a group called a church then the result should be something void of any "imperfection". Your doctrine is utterly inconsistant. You expect God to have patience with you as an individual as you sin against him daily. But you expect God to have no patience whatsoever with "the church". If God has no toleration for "minor imperfections", how do explain the fact that despite your continued sin, you believe God has not given up on you??

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between the true ekklesia which must constantly repent and the local ekklesia which cannot repent. That isn't my problem. I need the gift of repentance every day and I won't get it from any pastor or church or Family Radio fellowship.

Where does the Bible say that the local church cannot repent?

Joined: 31 Dec 2009 Posts: 506

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Jim B.: Fixed,

Why are you hanging out here in this blog site with us unclean unsaved people who go to church? Shouldn't you just depart out of this "depart out" blog site. You are talking and fellowshipping with us unsaved church people, and unsaved Camping friends, and you might become unclean yourself, by hanging out with us.

I hang out with many unsaved people. How do I know that there aren't any saved people here? You're the one who claims to know peoples' salvation status, not me. What I won't do is join a church where any man is my authority. Is someone here my authority, Jim? I believe I may be the only member here who understands that I am not yet saved. So maybe I need to get booted out in order to let this church vs. church party continue on without all my spiritual input.

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So I suggest that you find a nice mountain top that is far away from all of the sins of the people of the world, and be perfect or not perfect all by yourself.

Actually, I was about to depart for greener pastures, but then 2 Peter changed my mind. Thanks for the suggestion, but I am already on the mountaintop. There's no getting away from the sins of the flesh in this world. We are are IN the world, and this group is part of the world. I am not OF the world, nor am I OF this group.

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Can you see our point?

"Our" point? Is this your signal for the wolf pack to start pouncing since you don't have anything better? The wolf pack attack would be a good idea since the Camping friends would be glad to see me go, too. It would be a win/win for everyone, so...go for it!

Can you see my point? (I don't have a wolf pack behind me).